How to use NFTs to fund creative projects

00:00there's a lot of gatekeepers and gatekeeping that goes on in the film business in Hollywood, even in, in, in this sort of indie independent film circle, film festivals, like there's just, it's, it's very political and it's very gatekept. And I, you know, that's coming from me who I've, I've gotten, um, you know, I've gotten my foot in a lot of doors. You know, I, I, I grew up in with a family in the business. And so I was able to get to the front of a lot of lines and

00:34still was told no. And, you know, that's not to say that I'm entitled to something or anything, but I really have always felt and still feel that I have a voice in this space that's unique. I have things that are important to express through the medium of film that haven't been expressed in the way that I want to express them that I think can really help other people. And so to be told no, because my vision doesn't fit into this set of outdated rules or into this sort of strange

01:06formula that people have decided makes a film successful. That's, that is the challenge that most filmmakers face is like, well, who's famous that's in your movie or, you know, who's shooting a gun in your movie or like what it's, there's just this set of rules that we've, that we're told if we, if we can't tick those boxes, then our art is not worth anything. You're listening to the growth manifesto podcast, where we host in-depth interviews with business

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02:08You can find out more about Web Profits at webprofits.io. Now, let's get into it. This is Alex Kleanthus and today we're talking with Julie Pacino, who's a photographer, a filmmaker and who recently funded her new film, I Live Here Now Through NFTs, with the primary sales coming in at over $1 million and her secondary sales is about kind of half a million dollars, right? Today, we'll be talking about how to use NFTs to fund

02:40creative projects because this is a very exciting space and it's just at the very, very start. And just quickly, before we get started, make sure to go ahead, hit that subscribe button so you get the latest episodes as soon as they're released. Now let's get into it. Welcome, Julie. Thank you. It's great to be here. Yeah. And it's really great to have this conversation with you because we're seeing the NFT space, you know, just come out strong. And it seems that you are one of the first people to fund a project like this, which is probably why you're getting such fantastic

03:15PR right now, which is, I'm sure, helping the project as well. So could you just start by just giving a quick background of the film? Let's start with that. Yeah, let's start with that. Sure. So So I, let's rewind to February 2021. And I was in the process of writing a different feature length screenplay that had nothing to do at all with this. I was in the middle of this script.

03:45I was suffering from incredible writer's block. I was on a deadline and just did not know how I was going to conjure up a story that was interesting enough by the time that I needed to deliver it. And so a lot of times when I have, when I hit a creative wall, especially one that seems that's that big and insurmountable, I like to just change up my environment completely. And so I sort of randomly chose the Madonna Inn as a place that was outside of Los Angeles. That's that isn't Las Vegas,

04:21but isn't San Diego, like just somewhere that felt like far enough away that I could kind of get out of my own head. And so my friend and I, my friend Fern Kozine, who's, who's an actress that I work with on a lot of my stuff. Um, we went to the Madonna Inn and like, just with the intention of, of unplugging. We didn't tell anyone where we were going. I didn't bring my computer with me. I just, I brought my camera and some film because I take photos most of the time I have a

04:54camera on me. And so as soon as we got there, I just instantly like my creative juices just came back. And I started taking pictures of Fern and this new concept for a movie started occurring to me and to her. And she started to embody this character. And we were, we were going to the different rooms and, and, um, and this whole narrative just, just became apparent to us. And so, um, a couple, we spent a couple of days there. I came back to Los Angeles.

05:28I was able to parlay some of that creative energy into finishing the other screenplay, hitting that deadline. And then I just kind of dove headfirst into this new concept, which is, was, and is called, I live here now about a woman who accidentally gets pregnant and goes to the Madonna in to clear her head and figure out what she's going to be doing with it as a, you know, she's getting all these sorts of pressures for in Hollywood from her agent and the toxic

05:59relationship that she's in. And so she goes there to figure out what's going on and, and, um, kind of starts to lose her mind. Yeah. Right. Um, and so from that point, okay. So this is the part where I'm going to try and connect it for myself and for the listeners, right. Um, and the viewers, um, so you got inspired at the Madonna Inn. And so now like that you've got this project, right? And now you've, it seems have kind of integrated kind of NFTs basically into the construction of the project, right? So, so what were the, um,

06:32the series of, I guess, like events or thoughts that kind of got you to say, wait, I think I can do it like this. Yeah. So that was actually, um, quite a process because at the time that I wrote the script, I didn't really know what an NFT was. And so the I got back from the Madonna in I had a bunch of photos. I had the idea for a feature. And the first step that I knew I needed to take was to get the Madonna in on board to let me shoot there.

07:03And so I asked them if I could shoot there and they said no. And I was like, OK. So I went back to the drawing board. I took some of my photographs. I built a presentation that really talked about what I was going to be expressing through this movie because the Madonna Inn is a family run business. It's they get hit up a lot. They're very selective about what they let shoot at their hotel because, you know, they get hit up by a lot of people that depict it as this kind of kitschy sex motel. and that's just not the vibe there.

07:36Like it's Alex Madonna built this hotel for his wife in 1956 or seven. It opened in 1958. And so he built it for his wife. It's essentially a love letter to his wife. And you really feel that there. There's a lot of attention to detail. The furniture is, I don't know, expensive is such a tacky word, but it's like, it's heavy. You can't just move it around. And so it's like the stuff there is quality. And so I got the Madonna in on board. I had to go through a series of meetings. I wrote the script. And at the time that I finished the script, about three months later, I had really started to understand what an NFT meant.

08:23And my friend who was like heavily entrenched in the NFT world, Will Savas, he was like, hey, you should take some of these photos that you shot at the Madonna Inn and drop them as a as a film collection and talk about the fact that they inspired this movie. because that's what does well as NFTs in the photography space. Justin Aversano, who's a photography pioneer in the space, had just had a ton of success with his collection, Twin Flames, that had a real story behind it.

08:54And so my friend was like, there's a story that goes with these photos. You should drop them as an NFT collection. And so I did. It was only 100 photos, but we sold out in under 30 minutes. And I was instantly made aware of the power of this community. And so I even at that point, that was in August. By the time I dropped the collection, I still hadn't come up with the idea to fund the film with NFTs. That was like a very slow burning process.

09:24So at that point in time, it was separate. I had my movie. I was going about raising money for it in a traditional way. I was lucky enough to get Utopia Films on board as a distribution company and production company. And then there was like my NFT career. And so they were quite separate until about, I would say September. And I'll stop there. We can dig more into that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is really, really good. So traditionally, if you wanted to create a film or to produce a film, how hard is that, you know, to get the

09:59funding to get the production off the ground? Like, like what are the challenges in that? I mean, it's really, really, really hard. It's just an independent filmmaking is really, really hard. First of all, it's really expensive to make a movie. Even, even a low budget movie is, is quite expensive. And, um, you know, I think that there's a lot of gatekeepers and gatekeeping that goes on in the film business, in Hollywood, even in this sort of indie independent film

10:31circle, film festivals. Like there's just, it's very political and it's very gatekept. And I, you know, that's coming from me who I've gotten, you know, I've gotten my foot in a lot of doors. You know, I grew up with a family in the business. And so I was able to get to the front of a lot of lines and still was told no. And, you know, that's not to say that I'm entitled to something or anything, but I really have always felt and still feel that I have a voice in this space that's unique.

11:07I have things that are important to express through the medium of film that haven't been expressed in the way that I want to express them that I think can really help other people. And so to be told no, because my vision doesn't fit into this set of outdated rules or into this sort of strange formula that people have decided makes a film successful. That's that is the challenge that most filmmakers face is like, well, who's famous that's in your movie or, you know, who's shooting a gun in your movie or like what?

11:44it's, there's just this set of rules that we've, that we're told if we, if we can't tick those boxes, then our art is not worth anything. And that's what the, the NFT space is the antithesis of that. The NFT space proves that there are consumers, wealthy, high net worth consumers that want to spend money on thoughtful quality art. And so my experience in the space as a photographer taught me that. And that was the thing that clicked for me of like, well, let me

12:16go get my film finance this way, because I'm sick of having to hear from traditional film equity financiers. Like, well, why don't you just put your dad in the movie? It's like, well, because it's about a woman who's struggling with an unplanned pregnancy. And my dad has amazing range, but I don't quite think he's right for the part. So, you know, that's, that's where things click for me is like I, the NFT space rewards vulnerability and authentic art and creation. And I think that that's something that Hollywood has, has veered away from. And yeah.

12:51Yeah. I think what's interesting is that there's a changing of the guard, as I would say, right? There's like, there's some stuff changing right now and it kind of, it's not exactly the same, but you know, back when the internet started, right? Like all of a sudden, you know, the distribution of like all of the music out there and did that just changed right but it's been like it hasn't um come to the photography space to the film space as quick over the last 20 to 30 or so like years right and it feels like nfts now is really just changing it completely

13:24because now like if you have enough audience and a good community and it's a strong nft you could raise 20 million 50 million dollars right that's really interesting right because now you're starting to get the community to be part of the production and we'll talk about kind of some of um the utility around that but it really becomes this kind of self-supporting organism that the people that funded it or that that purchase the nfts help to promote it there's

13:56the secondary market, there's a value that's based on success. So it feels like it's going to spawn a whole industry, you know, of kind of independent films. Yeah. I mean, we, we always talk about it being kind of like a way to do a market screening before you've even shot the movie. And most importantly for me, just being able to engage with my investors who are people that have are investing because of the artwork, because they believe in the vision

14:29that I'm presenting and they understand it. And so that was just the biggest disconnect for me is like, you know, financiers not understanding the artistic value and how that that can translate to financial value. That is something that I had hit walls with and found that within the NFT space doesn't exist. People get it, you know? Okay. So that's high level, right? So now I just want

15:01to get into a bit of the detail, right? Because you got the idea. You said, cool, I'm going to do some NFTs, right? And then you started with your first project, which was the Keepers in the Inn, right is that right is that the photography is that the first hundred i live sorry so that's like i live here now i live here now it was a hundred one of one film photos and then i was part of the time magazine build a better future uh drop in which i had a photograph a photo that was

15:33made into additions for that and so keepers of the inn is for all intents and purposes like technically my third NFT drop. So what was your first one? First one was I live here now, a hundred photos that I took at the Madonna Inn with, with my friend Fern that inspired the screenplay. Great. So you took thousands of photos, right? And then you picked a hundred, right? And then you picked a hundred. And so what was the process of actually just getting them on to the OpenSea platform? Because I've heard it's pretty easy. it's easy yeah yeah so you just basically um you mint them and and you so you go to

16:10minting means uh officially turning it from uh just a random photo and putting it officially on the blockchain and so there are many different platforms that you can mint a photo on open sea is the one that i went to went with because at the time still but especially at the time it was it was where most artists were doing like larger collections. So there are other websites where you would do maybe like smaller, like one, two, three to 10, maybe 10 photo collections. But

16:44since this was a hundred, OpenSea was the spot for me to do it. So yeah, it's like a relatively straightforward process. Like you need to get a MetaMask, which is a digital wallet to be able to hold cryptocurrency in. And once you've got that set up, it's pretty easy to get your artwork minted and listed on OpenSea. Great. And just a quick question. So for the listeners who have a smaller collection, what are the sites that are the better ones for smaller collections

17:16instead of OpenSea? Is there anything you would recommend or that you've investigated and said, that looks pretty cool. I haven't really tested it, but that's something I might consider. Yeah, I know that OpenSea, you can do smaller collections on. And it is really the biggest, most well-known kind of platform. So I just, just from personal experience, would recommend minting on OpenSea. I know that there's foundation, which I believe is it. You have to get an invite to get on that. And then there are a bunch of different platforms on on not on Ethereum, but on Tezos and Solana.

17:57And I'm not as familiar with those, but I know that a lot of people who are just starting like to mint photos on those blockchains because it's the minting costs are less expensive. And so I wish I could speak in more detail about that. But I just dove head first and minted on Ethereum. Yeah. And look, the best part about this conversation is that this is a successful NFT project and you haven't had to understand how the blockchain works or, you know, basically the ins and outs of smart contracts and how all this stuff works.

18:30Right. And so that's exciting because I think, you know, historically, the crypto space is for the more technical people or whatever. And like there's all these kind of complexities around it. But now it's like you still have to get some some crypto somehow. But then apart from that, like it's pretty easy to connect. Right. So that's exciting. That's exciting for creatives because like that's the definition of creatives. They don't want spreadsheets and they don't want like all the data stuff. Right. They just want to be creative. Right. I'm creative. I was terrified of it. That's why I didn't jump right. If I, if I wasn't so, um,

19:05intimidated by it, I probably would own a board ape right now. Like I, I was that late to it because it was just like, I thought it was going to be too complex, but it's really truthfully not. I am not a tech savvy girl. I, but it's like anything. It's like when I went from having a Blackberry to an iPhone, like there's just a bit of a learning curve in the interface, but it's not anything to be terrified of. It's like pretty, you get the hang of it pretty quickly. Which is awesome. And then, so then you minted a hundred and then it sold out in 30 minutes, right?

19:37Yeah. How did it sell out so quick? So what was some of the promotion or the communication kind of that was happening around the project at that time? Yeah, I think, so Will Savas, who onboarded me into the community and then like promoted my project to his network of people, he's just very well connected and I think it was a product of being at a really great time because photography hadn't fully taken off yet and especially like my work stylistically and being

20:08a woman you know it's there were things about what I was doing that were new to the space and so I think it was a kind of a combination of those things um but I think that you know I was just fortunate enough to be in at the right time and to have someone like Will be an advocate and, and, um, you know, promote the work for me. It just, it kind of was just, I lucked out in that regard, but I do know that a lot of people have success in the space before they do a drop by

20:41just coming in and engaging with people. And, you know, Twitter is kind of wild. It's so, it's so much easier to engage than Instagram. And my following grew so quickly. Like I just noticed that about Twitter or through Instagram, my Twitter, like, yeah, like you just, it's, it's so much more interactive. And, um, so I think anyone that's, that's new to the space, it's the thing to do is just to get on Twitter and engage with people about NFTs and follow other

21:12people that do similar art as you and it's very easy to build a community truly it is like yeah right and so and so like if you want to be successful in the nft space you should probably be on twitter right that's a that's that's something i've seen across a lot of projects right that's where there's conversations there's there's quite a lot happening right and discord but discord is like overwhelming as i don't even i don't subscribe to like 10 kind of nft projects in discord and i just had to mute all of the channels and the conversations that was full on I'm like, I'm not that into it, you know, like I'm into it, but I'm not like that.

21:47Twitter is the, is the place to start. How did it feel to sell out so quick? Like, whoa, 30 minutes is like, that's less than, it's less than some shows on Netflix, right? Like it's like launch, let's check everything. What? Like, like how was that experience? It was unbelievable. It was like, frankly, life-changing. Like I just, the, the, it was so overwhelming just to not only to sell out, but then to like instantly be engaging with the people who were collecting my work and to be talking about my work and to be talking about art in general.

22:20Like that's the thing that's so amazing about this space is the conversations. And personally, as a filmmaker, like I, that's why I create my art is to connect with other people and, um, and make friends. Like I just, I, it's, that's always been my in is just like making, making art in a collaborative way with people. And so, um, selling out on one hand, what like selling out just in general, like the sort of validation that comes with that, that there were, you know, a hundred people, I

22:56mean, people collected multiple. So I think it was like, we had 65 or so collectors off the bat. Like that validation is amazing. There are 65 people that felt like my art was valuable and then wanted to talk about it. Like that just is so humbling and invigorating. Like as an artist is just, it gives such worth. And so now that I'm like fully entrenched in the space and have become a collector myself,

23:28it's really been incredible to be able to spread that feeling because it's just, it is as an artist, the greatest thing in the world to, to, to feel like people give a shit about what you're, what you're making and want to talk about it, you know, because it would be on it. Yeah. Because it would seem that the life of an artist until they've become successful is a life of questioning and self doubt and rejection and, you know, self kind of internalization. personalization so it's really cool to see someone go hey i'll pay money for this and

24:00start talking to you right and so what kind of um um people actually um had purchased that first block of nfts it was all sorts of people like some some people are anonymous right where like i i even had a skype with one of them who on the skype had like a digital representation of his face and like you know so it from that to um to other photographers

24:32which like to me it was so cool is just like other other artists that you'd think are like my competition being like no like I know how it feels to sell artwork I'm gonna pass that feeling on to you and now you go pass it on to someone else like you touched on it earlier this sort of self-sustaining ecosystem of artists supporting each other. So that way we can eliminate the gatekeepers and the middlemen who try to tell us what to do with our artwork. It's like, we will decide what, what,

25:06what we do with our art and we will support each other in our authentic pursuit of our art. And that, that was the main thing of the collectors of like art patrons, is great and everyone, but like connecting with other photographers that were like, your stuff is so cool. And then seeing their stuff and being like, your stuff is so cool. It's just, yeah, it's great. It's all love. It's so interesting, right? Because, and I think this is the same for most people out there and this is the same for crypto and

25:36everything, right? There comes a point where something happens and now you have the belief, right? And that probably just would have instilled the belief. This is something, right? And I think until that point you're trusting people around you you may have to you know create something this is like the path that's available and there's all this hope but now you've got the belief right so from that point to the next drop so with the next drop the three and a half thousand is that the next one yeah yeah basically like I was a part I was one of uh 40 or 50 artists chosen for

26:09the time magazine art uh drop but like that wasn't I was just a part of that which was great and that's that we, that's a conversation for a different, uh, interview, but, um, but yeah, keepers of the inn became my next drop, which was 3,356 photos. And like the thing about, about that drop was just, I, I, again, like after I sold out, I live here now, the 100 photos, like I still hadn't thought about financing my film with NFTs. I was just riding the high and,

26:40and photography and film were separate for me at that point. But what was happening was I was having these meetings with, with equity investors, you know, and they, they started to pick up steam because we had sold out and like, and again, though, like still these investors were just wanting to, wanting me to sell my soul to, to get their money, to make my movie. It just wanting people who had no experience making movies, wanting final cut over my project or asking me, like, it's telling me they'll give me the money,

27:13but I have to shoot it. I can't shoot it at the Madonna Inn. And it's just like, but that's what the whole thing is. And I'm just like, you know what? Like, but I have now new access to a whole pool of investors that understand what I'm saying with my art and are excited about it. And when I was figuring out with my creative partners, like what is going to be my next NFT drop? You know, I, we kicked around some ideas in the photography

27:44realm. And then it was just kind of like this light bulb moment of like, well, what if we bridge the gap? Like, what if it's a photography series, but it directly correlates to, I live here now and it and it gets that film finance and like now not only have we done another successful photography drop but we've sort of introduced a new model of independent film financing because at that point uh it hadn't been done yet we we were and are the first

28:16narrative feature film to be completely financed by nfts and so um then we that was that that aha moment of like, oh shit, like we can really change the game. And like, we can start to fix some of the things that we're annoyed about within the Hollywood system. And it, and it can be this revolutionary movement and that excited us. And then that was like, all right, if that's exciting us, that's going to excite people who are going to want to buy into it. And so that, that process

28:48of deciding to do it in that way was quite organic. And yeah, the photos are just pictures that I took during an in-character, like dress rehearsal process over the course of three days at the Madonna Inn. Like I just went with the actors. We picked our 16 most pivotal scenes and we just like lived it for three straight days. And I took like 30,000 photos and went a little bit insane, but I didn't really have to do with what I got. That's so cool. But just, so just for clarity. Yeah. You sold out the first drop of a hundred,

29:20the Time Magazine thing. Then you said, I need to look like to fund the film so what could I do of course I'll do this and then you went there for three days you took 30,000 photos and then you had to then condense those 30,000 to 3,400 and something right and then you had to edit them all right so what that must have been a fair bit of effort and so that's where the belief is really kind of helpful right because you're like well I did that with a hundred now I'll do it with three and a half thousand right and so how much work was that just out of interest? Dude, I mean, I went to the hospital. I'm not even kidding. I, I,

29:53but I delivered the, the assets and then I, I got so sick. I had to go spend the night in the hospital. I'm not kidding, which is not like you can make good art and work hard without going to the hospital. Like I, that's just, I don't know. You don't have to do that. That's insane. And I should have managed my health better, but I worked my fucking ass off on it. And, um, and it, it was, it was the hardest, most ambitious endeavor that I've ever embarked on because I wanted to make

30:29sure that the, that the photos that I was picking were like good. Like I did, I, I needed to, I didn't want anyone to get stuck minting an NFT that that sucked. Like I, I was, and so that was just such a process, just trying to narrow it down, but I couldn't narrow it down too much because then we wouldn't hit our goals. So it was like, okay, now we need to make some additions, but how do I make their variants within the additions? And so it was a lot of thinking, a lot of, uh, you know, 14 hour days. Luckily I had an amazing team with me. Like my creative

31:04partners were just so supportive and obviously couldn't have done it alone or I might not have even made it to the hospital. But yeah, it was an insane amount of work. Yeah. But it's also, it seems like it's one of those times where there's something novel and it's something that's based on timing. And it's also something that just helps you hit your goal if you can tap into your creative strength. Like what a good challenge that is. Like, of course you would

31:35not stop. You're like, Hey, don't forget food, food, forget food. Like what about that photo? What about this one? What about that? You know? So like, I can completely understand that passion, which is great now. So then they went live and then how did the sales go on that drop? Yeah. So we were, we dropped it on December 17th and the day that we dropped it on, I think also like Adidas had some huge drop. And so we like kind of got swallowed a little bit out of the gate, but we did pretty well, especially considering that it was the holidays and stuff.

32:09And so we, um, I think we sold like 500 or so on our first weekend. And then we were like kind of moving at a relatively steady pace. And at that point, once the drop was live, I was like insanely act like the work didn't stop. Once we dropped, I was like doing Twitter spaces every day and talking about it as much as I could and, um, you know, just promoting the hell out of it. And so that, that lasted for about, um, about three weeks. And we had like, we were, we had

32:42started to pick up some more momentum when the new year hit. And we were at about like, uh, I think I want to say we were like 30 or so percent sold out and then wound up somehow on Gary V's radar and he minted some. And then that helped push us through the finish line and then helped carry the secondary sales. But like the thing is, you know, we, we really, the NFT space, like while it's small is, is actually quite vast because it's like some of these 10,000 PFP projects sell out in a minute and have 5,000 holders. Right. So we've got like a thousand holders and, and we still feel like even at this point, I mean, we're shooting the film right after Labor Day.

33:34Like we still feel like this project is still in its very, very, as an, from an NFT perspective, like very, very early stages. Like, yes, we've sold out and we're able to make the movie and also unlock some of the other utility associated with the project. So we're able to launch some really cool initiatives to onboard more women into the space. but we feel like just from a sales perspective like we're we we have not really scratched the surface in a lot of ways because our we we've got a thousand holders but we've got 3,400 photographs

34:09so I'm just excited to see like as we get closer to shooting what what evolves with the project. How did you decide on the mint price the price to sell the first kind of the first batch you know because I think it was 0.2 Ethereum, right? Like that seems like a... 0.09. 0.09 was the first one. Oh, cool. The first drop was... The first 100.2. And then the second one was 0.09. So, okay, this is perfect, right? This is great. So how did you decide what the mint price should be?

34:44So we, it was like, there were so many conversations. Like the first thing we decided on was like how many photos we were going to do. And we knew it was going to have to be somewhere between two and 5,000 photos. And that was literally just based on how many photos I felt like I could narrow it down to and without like compromising the artistic integrity. And so the number that I landed on with the additions and everything was around 3,400

35:16photos. And so that was just, you know, we just did the math on where Ethereum was at high end, low end, and like what we could mint it at in order to be able to make the bare minimum versus like best case scenario. And so that was just like essentially crunching numbers, but also wanting to make sure that it was accessible enough for us to be able to build an audience. Like there were people that advised that we mint the photos at one Ethereum, which at the time was like forty two hundred dollars.

35:50And so, yeah, like we could do that. But then our audience is going to be much smaller. And the idea is to create this movement and make it accessible. And so we also built into the drop like tiers of rarity. So within thirty four hundred photos, there are twenty two one of one film photos. And so we knew that there would be some fun once the drops sold out of people trying to trade and complete sets and get the rarest photos to unlock credits on the film and all sorts of like fun roadmap incentives.

36:23But 0.09 was what we landed on just to make sure that we could hit our goal, even in a worst case scenario with Ethereum, which is quite volatile, but also to be able to include as many people as possible. It seems to be that 0.1, 0.2 seems to be an amount that the majority of people can afford, right? As soon as it goes to 0.5 plus, 0.7 plus, now you're looking at 3,000 for, you know, one. Now that's a car for some people that, you know, that's, you know, that's kind of, that becomes a bit hard. So like, I quite like the thinking behind that.

36:59So it's sold up front, but then there's also the opportunity to earn the royalties off the resales, right? Is that something which you've basically just set up? And if so, could you just explain that just to the listeners, kind of how that works? Yeah. So that's one of the great things about NFTs and the blockchain is that you can, when you're minting your pieces and setting up the smart contract, you can decide what percentage of royalties on secondary sales you get.

37:33And so typically it's for a smaller batch drop, it's 10%. Like on my original 100 photo drop, I get 10% anytime one of those photos sales on the secondary. For the larger scale drops, it's a little bit lower. So for keepers of the inn, it's 8%. And we're taking half of those proceeds and just reinvesting them back into the NFT community by purchasing from women and LGBTQIA artists. That's like a big part of our mission statement.

38:07Um, there's a wild statistic that, that came out last year, which like, obviously, hopefully we've even done our part to change by now, but that like 5% of sales were to women. And that's just insane. And the only way that I can think of fixing that is to just directly go and buy from women who haven't made a sale yet. And so that's what we decide to do with our secondary sales.

38:39But that is the beauty in perpetuity royalties. And this is huge, right? Because now the royalties, they give you an incentive to increase the value of your NFT. So now for the holders, you know, so they're like, I'm sure there are holders that just love the project. but I'm sure there's a bunch of speculators as well who just want that to go up in value too, right? And I think, you know, this is a big part of a successful NFT project, like is what happens

39:10afterwards, right? And basically how can you increase the value of the NFTs? And then because if you increase it, then you earn the royalties, you know, so it's like a, it's a self-supporting kind of like organism kind of thing, right? And so, so how are you approaching the, the secondary kind of market and ensuring that the value will go up and so on? Yes. So for us, like our, our roadmap is, is incredibly extensive. So any holder of one of

39:42these NFTs gets to be involved directly in the creative process of making this movie via bi-weekly town halls that we have. So I'm able to talk through my creative process with the holders and the community, which that, that is the most exciting part for me, because as a filmmaker, if I were to buy into a project like this, I'd want that. Like, I'm just a nerd for the process and just love to like hear about where, where a filmmaker's mind is at every step of the way. Um, in terms of the like long-term value with this, it's just, again, like we haven't even made

40:19the movie yet. And so our goal is to make an amazing movie that is artistically and financially super successful that draws in a huge audience. And we will be doing all sorts of really fun, interactive, in real life, immersive experiences at the Madonna Inn, inviting people to come stay at the Madonna Inn for a couple of days, all expenses paid, come see a theatrical performance at the Madonna Inn inspired by the movie, just kind of like really involving the community and

40:52having these events that you can only have access to if you're a member of the community. And that's a thing that, you know, Bored Ape Yacht Club, like these, that's a model that works within the NFT world is you create this sort of exclusive club-like experience. And it's very easy to do that around a movie because it's all, especially a movie like this, that's so creative and has this very like Alice in Wonderland feel to it. Like we, we are going to just take that and run with it and make this like, uh, you know, a real life and in real life thing, the keepers of the inn,

41:26everyone that has one of these, you're a member of this inn and you get special perks because of that. And so now we're talking about the utility of these tokens, right? So now the fact that I have a token, um, means that I actually can sell it, but like, it's basically like mine, like, and it's, it's an investment, but then there's also the things that that token actually kind of like allows you to have access to, which is the thing which you just explained. Right. And it's almost like, it sounds like, you know, just before it was like, Hey, you know, we did this big budget

41:57movie, the red carpet opening and now all the stars go, but now the NFT holders could go. Right. And that's now something that's kind of possible. Right. And so how do you communicate? Like, it doesn't feel like it's like an email database or something, right. Like, like it's Ethereum holders, right? And they've got, you know, these, you know, super long wallet numbers, right? So how do you actually, you know, start to manage this communication? Yeah, I mean, as scary as it is, like Discord really is where the community members sort of all come together. I think we've got like

42:32about 700 people in our discord. And like I said, we're like a thousand holders. So, um, you know, I, I assume that there are some holders that just want to be anonymous and don't want to have any part in it. Um, but just, you know, we make it very obvious on the website and on our open C page, like how to get in touch with us, how does, how to follow what's going on. I'm accessible on Twitter we have a keepers of the in Twitter page and so um that's really how the communication

43:05process goes and in the on those two platforms because you're right not like we can send out a email but like in discord we just like we can at everyone and um you know hopefully we get it and from what I've seen on discord there's this thing called holder verification so they can basically just link to the metamask thing which is kind of explained earlier and it will confirm that this specific wallet basically owns like this nft right and so there's like this um simply

43:37automated processes to verify that so thank you for explaining that because i'm just trying to give people the full picture of the whole part of it because it's really exciting but it seems really scary right yeah you explained it that was good i i i it's hard to i take it for granted sometimes and not everyone knows what, what this all means, but yeah, that's, that is the, the deal with discord is being able to connect your wallet to verify that you're a holder of this piece. So like even in our discord, there's the, there is the lobby, which is like open to

44:08anyone can come in and see what's up in our community. But then there's the keepers of the in channel that only members who hold the, hold this piece, this token in their wallet can access. And that's where sort of some of the more exclusive information is released. So it sounds like you have just nailed timing, story, like tech, PR. Like, yes, I'm sure it's been, you know, a couple of decades of hard work and then fantastic timing, right? So this is the one thing I want everyone to know.

44:41Like, it's not like you said one day, I think I want to be a film producer. And I think I want to just create this thing. And then magically love this NFT is there. And it all just happens, right? So it still requires a ton of work. I'm sure you're passionate about it, but like you've just kind of just happened to nail the fact that it's a fantastic story in the fact that the gatekeepers that have their processes and their story, and it's like a club and so on. And now there's this kind of whole, but decentralized approach to funding all kinds of creative pursuits.

45:15And I think it's going to really change the game. And so what needs to happen between like now and that point, you know, just for these big changes to happen? Because it sounds like you've just started something and it's gone public, right? Like in terms of, you know, basically everyone's starting to talk about it, which is going to get people ideas and so on, right? How hard is it going to be to kind of change up the game, you know, just from the traditional approaches to funding these pursuits? Yeah, I mean, it's there are more projects coming. I'm I am helping as an advisor on a project called Calle Edita, which is directed by Miguel Faust.

45:56And that's dropping next week. Same sort of idea. It's an independent film that's going to be financed by NFTs. And so, you know, we need to just keep on successfully doing this and pulling it off. I know that there are some more Hollywood independent producers that are coming into the space. And so, you know, hopefully no one comes in and cash grabs and exploits it. So I think there's also a responsibility that I feel that I know some of my other filmmaking friends in the space feel to just preserve the artistic integrity of what we're doing.

46:35And I think, you know, we need to now go make a good movie. Right. That's like, oh, I don't want to like that needs to be that that can't be forgotten. It's like great that we've done this. It's going to be really fun to go on this process with the community that I've built. But, you know, this is my first feature and it needs to be good and it needs to do well. And I'm going to do everything that I can to make sure that that happens, because that's ultimately what's going to round this out is like we set the film up in this way.

47:06We secured our financing in this way. We had a great, fun time making it that engaged our community. And now the final product is a quality work of art that has value in the in real life marketplace. And so I feel like I am I've achieved something incredible. I'm super proud. Yes, I worked very hard for it. But I also feel like this is just now the beginning. Like I've gotten the sort of the sort of first step out of the way.

47:41But now I, you know, it's it's up to me and my partners and my community, frankly, to like make this movie really good. And once that's done, then I think we're working with a case study that can really change the tides in a forever type way. But this has definitely opened the floodgates. And I think it will hopefully pave the beginning of the way for other for other all sorts of filmmakers to come to come after us and and pursue it in the same way.

48:15but we got to make a good movie. So I think, you know, it will be, it's going to, it takes, it takes time to turn those tides. And I think within the next couple of years, as long as our, we preserve the integrity of the art and make good quality content, like we could, we could be really revolutionizing something here. It seems that traditionally, like you'd have that person who wants final cut and then the funders and they're always asking for things and they're always changing everything. Now it's just yours. And now it's direct to the people who have

48:47supported you. So that level of pressure to create something would be much, much higher, just for yourself to say, well, look, they have helped me. I got to create something that's awesome. And they haven't tried to enforce final cut or anything like that. So I just have to make something that's awesome. And so how are you dealing with that? That thing, especially after hearing the story around you always went to the hospital for the 14 hour days for the three and a half thousand things, how are you going to kind of handling that, that self-pressure, I guess?

49:20I mean, I'm just like, I'm just making sure that I'm surrounded by people that are, that I believe in. That's all I can do. I'm not, I can't really do anything other than hire and collaborate with people who I feel like can elevate my vision. And so I lucked out with Utopia Films. They're an incredible distribution company, but they're also co-producing this film with me. And so they're really helping guide me through this process and taking a lot of that

49:52like logistical production stuff off of my plate so I can fully focus on the creative. um I'm a big Yankees fan and Garrett Coles said famously like pressure is a privilege right so I feel like I thrive under pressure and I feel like it's good if there's pressure that means that I care about it and there's something at stake and so I just try not to I try not to succumb to it there's like a happy there's a happy balance it's good to feel it but it's it's not good to be afraid

50:25of anything because at the end of the day, like we're, it's, it's art and I'm making a movie and I'm not, I'm not a heart surgeon and no one's life is on the, like literal life is on the line. And so, um, yeah, I think it's just about trusting my own vision and like leaning on my collaborators to help steer me in the right direction. And, and, um, you know, tell me if my ideas don't make sense. But as long as they make sense and as long as my community understands where I'm headed with

50:55this, like, I think, I think all will go well. That's amazing, Julie. I'm so happy for you. Such a cool story. So many challenges along the way. Like, I think like, it's really easy to look like, you know, just for people to look back and see all the steps and think it's easy, but taking the steps a step at a time, like in this space where it's so unknown, that would have been like a real um courageous thing to do right and so like i just want to say that because i think that anyone who's thinking about it there's no path yet like it's just it's

51:31it's it's completely open right now it's almost unlimited how like the possibilities of how to actually create this thing and so thank you for sharing the story um just quickly for people who want to be involved in your project how do they find you yeah so twitter is the best way it's just my handle is at julie underscore pacino um and our website is keepers of the end dot art where you can read about the project and that will also direct you to our official open c page where you

52:03can mint an nft and then jump in and join i think the entry point at with where eth is at now i think it's like $118 to jump in. So it's a fair entry point for all the stuff that we're doing. And definitely invite anyone that wants to slide into my DMs and ask me questions about what's going on or anyone that knows nothing about NFTs. I try to make myself as available as possible to onboard more people because it's really not as complex and intimidating as it can seem.

52:36thank you for getting the word out there I love the passion I love the insight and I love the journey thank you so much for coming on the podcast today this was great Alex thank you so much thanks for listening to the growth manifesto podcast if you enjoyed the episode please give us a five-star rating on iTunes for more episodes please visit growthmanifesto.com forward slash podcast and if you need help driving growth for your company please get in touch with us at webprofits.io